Debate fact-check 2: The Surge
In the debate, McCain promised 'victory' in Iraq and praised the surge.
First of all, it isn't 'victory' if Baghdad's best hospital doesn't even have working elevators any more.
Second of all, the violence fell in Baghdad because the Sunnis were massacred or chased to Syria, leaving few mixed neighborhoods, not because of 'take, clear, hold' (which is in fact a tactic, not a strategy). Satellite pictures show Sunni Baghdad dark now.
posted by Juan Cole @ 9/27/2008 12:03:00 AM
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Unfortunately, Obama is as dishonest as McCain when it comes to the Surge.
In a debate on foreign policy, NEITHER mentioned the word Palestine or Palestinians.
This was a tip-toe debate avoiding any issue that might offend the Jewish voter.
Thanks Professor Cole, good posting here.
What struck me in the Iraq discussion is that neither McCain nor Obama seems to recognize the horrendous effect the Iraq invasion has had on the Iraqi people. But Obama has no interest in the facts in the references posted here about ethnic cleansing and refugees that refute "victory" through surge. Maybe the eye is off the ball and the Iraqis have $79 billion, but haven't they paid the worst cost? Why is it that Obama is loathe to go there, even though McCain's position could be undermined, while the American people could learn from the debate some of the real issues in Iraq?
Juan , If Sunni Baghdad is black at night I take it you mean it is deserted. Then if we are paying Sunni in Anabar province to not fight us and they left the north out of their last political deal does that this mean the 3 partition state already exists?
"What struck me in the Iraq discussion is that neither McCain nor Obama seems to recognize the horrendous effect the Iraq invasion has had on the Iraqi people."
Most Americans don't care much beyond the negative effect it has had on the United States. I get sick of hearing them whine about how even liberal and progressive Americans are suffering so much as a result of their little adventure in Iraq.
One of the things that particularly appalls (but does not surprise) me is Obama's display of utter ignorance when he said to McCain “You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong.” No, Mr Obama, McCain was right, and YOU are wrong. Since the tenth century when Sunni and Shi`a became distinct communities there have only been three or so episodes of violence, and those did not break out because of tensions between the two communities, but as a result of foreign invasions - just as the current violence is a result of the U.S. invasion and brutal manipulation of Iraq's social, demographic, and political structure.
Obama will not do what is right in regard to Iraq, because he bases his ideas and plans on ignorance and misinformation. His only saving grace in this regard is that McCain is so much worse.
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